Jesus was crucified....

 
 Dec 21 2005, 01:07

Post #1

 
According to The Bible, Jesus was crucified in the middle of the day or afternoon. He was taken down before sunset. This means his time on the cross may have been anywhere from one to five hours. Victims of crucifixion often lingered an agonising death on the cross for up to three days. Death in a couple of hours is fishy.

Then he was supposedly placed in a tomb/cave much like Mithra had been placed. If sundown was 7 PM, and he was in the tomb, at that time, then he spent 5 hours on Friday, 24 hours on Saturday, and 7 hours on Sunday when he walked out. That is 36 hours. Three days, or Three nights is misleading. The number three was picked because it is a magic number and applied to Jonah, Mithra, Apollonius, and most of the other virgin born god-man resurrecting redeemers.

If the couple hours on the cross produced hypoxia, and brain ischaemia, with acidosis so severe as to kill Jesus then we have a different scenario. He may have dropped his blood pressure so low or suffered cardiac arrest to lose consciousness. In this case his brain was getting no oxygen and no blood flow. He not only had anoxia. He had lack of blood perfusion with the necessary O2 and glucose. There was no venous blood removing CO2 and other toxins of metabolism. The build-up of neurotransmitter amines and glutamate plus the destruction of calcium channels in the neurons led to Calcium influx, potassium out flux, water permeation and cell swelling and bursting.

After a couple hours in this severe state the neuronal nuclei would break up. Mitochondria would burst and cease cellular metabolism. Swelling cells would rupture. In a few more hours his brain, axons, astrocytes, and oligodendrocytes would necrose. His capillary network would fragment with clots in the stasis of blood flow.


Then the brain would turn into a semi-liquid mush. All fibre circuits would be erased. All memories, language functions, learned motor skills (walking), cognitive processing, emotional circuits, vision, hearing, and autonomic regulation would be gone. The rather multi-modal multi-synaptic autonomic network which controls temperature regulation, sweating, cardiac rate regulation, blood pressure control systems, sexual accessory sequence programmes, and the conscious on-off ARAS switch would dissolve. All of this would have already been lost.

In such a body, the necrotic brain can produce no electrical saltatory transmission. No synapses would be left anyway. This is "Brain Death" which I am compelled to determine to my great sadness in patients about once per week. True Brain Death is determined by:
    1. Loss of pupillary reflexes,
    2. Loss of reflexive eye movements (Doll's eyes and caloric responses,)
    3. Loss of corneal responses,
    4. Absence of any spontaneous breathing trigger with measured hypoxia/hypercarbia,
    5. Loss of patterned motor responses (flaccid paralysis),
    6. Flat lined EEG done twice 24 hours apart, or non-flow on MRAngiography.
    7. in the 24 hour period, blood tests showing zero sedative drug levels.
    8. Then that is the final form of death, irreversible Brain Death/necrosis.

None have EVER recovered if all 5 clinical criteria are met. Add in the three lab criteria and game is well over and teams are walking off the field. There are multiple different studies. Since there are no shortages of people dying, the numbers in studies summated are in hundreds. Unfortunately the Gospel writers never mentioned the following:
    No one noted a carotid, radial, or femoral pulse on Jesus.
    No one noted pupillary reactions, (size, symmetry, light, and accommodation.)
    No one noted his ocular motor reflexes (Doll’s Eye, Cold water calorics)
    No one checked his patterned motor responses that may persist in some reversible comas.
    No one recorded total flaccid paralysis, decerebrate or decorticate rigidity, myoclonus.
    No one noted listening to his heart according to the gospels.
    No one noted listening to his lungs with an ear or stethoscope.
    No one noted presence or absence of corneal reflexes.
    No one noted muscle tone.

Naturally no EEG was done. So we don’t know if he was flat-lined. All of the above minus the EEG are very specific easy tests for brain death. Roman soldiers may have known those reactions, especially their medics.

So we can’t say with certainty if he died…on the cross or later of senile dementia or syphilis. Until very recent times and in many substandard medical care facilities, determinations of death or brain death prove to be incorrect when the patient awakens screaming in the Morgue.

Can a doctor determine whether or not Jesus actually died based on the written narrative? Not enough information is provided to make a diagnoses. Although, if he did not die, his recovery may have been assumed to have been a resurrection. It would have been a recovery from reversible coma not death. And the rest of the story would have been invented in response to the resurrection illusion.


However, if Jesus really died, and was dead 36 or 39 hours, his brain was a featureless mush. No blood flow meant no oxygen, no removal of glutamate, no prevention of open Calcium ion channels, and no maintenance of membrane stability of neurones. Then apoptosis (cell death) occurred. There was nothing with which to activate the cortex for consciousness, no perception, no awareness, no vision, no hearing, no tactile sensation, no motor neuronal firing along axons to activate muscles, no circuits to think, or circuits to talk. There would be no neurons, no axons, and no synapses to transmit data.

To truly resurrect as the person Jesus, his entire brain would have to be remade and precisely rewired. It would have to be 100% exact from scratch with intact neurons, axons, myelin sheathes, synapses, ample concentrations of neurotransmitters at pre-synaptic nerve endings, and normal transmitter receptors on healthy dendrites of neurons.

The new brain would have to be an EXACT COPY of his original brain down to each synapse in the right place. And the trillions of circuits (and million billion synapses) of the individual person would have to be an exact re-duplication of the pre-death brain macro- and microstructure. His entire life memory programmes would have to be reinstalled into the circuitry of his brain, the most complex computer in history.

That has never been known to occur. One must postulate very special extreme magic. And no magic has yet to be proven to exist. The burden of proof that Jesus died and resurrected is on the person making that extraordinarily implausible claim. What is the proof that he died? None.

Using the Bible as eye witness evidence, nobody can do even a superficial cursory neurological exam. Besides, how can believers explain the rewiring of the most complex computer ever known aside from speculation of implausible magic.

So a truly dead Jesus resurrecting would only be possible outside of the realm of reality and within the realm of fantastic magic and fantasy thinking. Believers would say nothing is impossible with the excuse...miracles (i.e. magic) or an omnipotent God. But that is unprovable. Magic is a cop out when one cannot explain the impossible. It is trying to explain the impossible with the unknown.


So either Jesus died and that was that. Or he awoke from transient cardiogenic shock with traumatic autonomic orthostatic coma. In such a case he did not die. And a person who has not died cannot resurrect from the dead. But either Jesus died or he didn't. And we will never know which was the case.

Option 1. Jesus died in on the cross, brain liquefied, and there could have been no resurrection. Possibly a smidgen of his life's history (as recorded in the Bible) is true; but the cumulative or "snowballing" effect--caused by the human tendency to err, to fantasize, to intimidate opponents, and to exaggerate for self-interest reasons--has resulted in the story of Jesus's resurrection and most of the other fanciful stories concerning his life.

Option 2. Jesus didn't die on the cross, but recovered lying horizontally in the tomb and awoke from transient coma. He rolled the “small round stone” away and walked out, terrifying the wits out of the Roman Soldiers, who assumed a supernatural being was coming out of the grave to get them. And the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey calls it, came from the human tendency to err, to fantasize, to intimidate opponents, and to exaggerate for self-interest reasons.

Option 3. Jesus didn't exist in real life.
He was a fictional hero of the Joseph Campbell variety. His life was founded on the virgin born god-man redeemers who died and mythologically resurrected in 16 older Pagan cults. Paul, and other Church fathers infused with Mithraism, consciously or unconsciously absorbed Mithra's biography for the fictional Jesus.


Aindiachai


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Religion is an irrational meme complex acting like a computer virus in the brain. It inhibits the brain's rational, analytical, and sceptical screening circuits (Rubbish filter). The results are gullibility, superstition, paranoia, hate, and often violence.
 
 
 

 
 Dec 21 2005, 01:13
Post #2









Jesus was on the cross very briefly (few hours) then went into shock. Dusk at Passover required his quick burial. He was not even given the usual anointing and washings. We know that because the women were going to do that on Sunday Morning. If Jesus did suffer brain anoxia and if it lasted 3-5 hours he would be really totally dead. But he was taken down within three hours. Fluid had accumulated in his legs (oedema) and abdomen (ascites) as he went into cardiogenic shock and autonomic postural hypotensive shock. His pulse and heart beat may have been undetectable. A piercing of the abdomen would have released ascitic fluid of congestive heart failure along with some blood. The gospel reports this.

Then once down, he was placed in a horizontal position. Blood perfusion and perfusive blood pressure would have recovered. Some lung ventilation could return as the downward pull of the diaphragm was relieved. Lying horizontal may require 6 or more hours of reperfusion of the brain for him to wake up. That may well have occurred in the tomb. Then he gradually stabilised.

In 38 hours he was up and about. Perhaps he then pushed the boulder enough to roll it back. The rocks used were of two types: most common was a small cubical rock maybe 50 Kg that could be pushed out. The other was basically a stone wheel that sat in a stone groove. Archaeologists verify this. It did not require super strength to get the stone wheel rolling down to open the small tomb opening.

He then walked out. He had not resurrected but recovered from shock. This occurrence is well known in the history of many particular hospitals. Each has its own story. During the mass English reburials when grave space was taking too much room, coffins were opened and bones removed. But scratch marks were supposedly found on 25% of the coffin lids. That sounds like an exaggeration but it surely did happen.


Aindiachai


--------------------
Religion is an irrational meme complex acting like a computer virus in the brain. It inhibits the brain's rational, analytical, and sceptical screening circuits (Rubbish filter). The results are gullibility, superstition, paranoia, hate, and often violence.

 

 

 
 Dec 21 2005, 02:02
Post #3










If Jesus was crucified for claiming to be a King of the Jews, that was an act of treason to the Roman Empire. Such an event would have been recorded like all of the other executed rebels. Romans were not in the habit of crucifying every goofy cross-eyed religious cult leader. The Jews of Jerusalem did not notice Jesus. No Roman records record the incredible event of walking Zombies coming out of their graves after Jesus died.

All you have is transcribed oral stories of Greeks or Hellenised Jews such as Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. But none of whom were old enough to have met a man in 29 CE and written about it near the beginning of the 2nd Century. Life expectancy was about 33 years of age. All claims from so called contemporary sources are just mentioning that a cult of people following a long dead Jesus still had followers. There were about 10 times as many Mithraists at that time. What does any of it prove? It proves absolutely nothing.

People want to believe in a man-god, and rational argument means little compared to the emotional commitment in a myth that carries with it, the delusion of immortality.


Aindiachai



--------------------
Religion is an irrational meme complex acting like a computer virus in the brain. It inhibits the brain's rational, analytical, and sceptical screening circuits (Rubbish filter). The results are gullibility, superstition, paranoia, hate, and often violence.

 

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